IBIS Macromodel Task Group Meeting date: 06 Nov 2012 Members (asterisk for those attending): Agilent: * Fangyi Rao * Radek Biernacki Altera: David Banas Julia Liu Hazlina Ramly Andrew Joy Consulting: Andy Joy ANSYS: Samuel Mertens * Dan Dvorscak * Curtis Clark Steve Pytel * Luis Armenta Arrow Electronics: Ian Dodd Cadence Design Systems: Terry Jernberg * Ambrish Varma Feras Al-Hawari Brad Brim * Kumar Keshavan Ken Willis Cavium Networks: Johann Nittmann Celsionix: Kellee Crisafulli Cisco Systems: Ashwin Vasudevan Syed Huq Ericsson: Anders Ekholm IBM: Greg Edlund Intel: Michael Mirmak Maxim Integrated Products: * Mahbubul Bari * Hassan Rafat * Ron Olisar Mentor Graphics: * John Angulo Zhen Mu * Arpad Muranyi Vladimir Dmitriev-Zdorov Micron Technology: Randy Wolff Justin Butterfield NetLogic Microsystems: Ryan Couts Nokia-Siemens Networks: Eckhard Lenski QLogic Corp. * James Zhou SiSoft: * Walter Katz Todd Westerhoff Doug Burns Mike LaBonte Snowbush IP: Marcus Van Ierssel ST Micro: Syed Sadeghi Teraspeed Consulting Group: Scott McMorrow * Bob Ross TI: Casey Morrison Alfred Chong Vitesse Semiconductor: Eric Sweetman Xilinx: Mustansir Fanaswalla Ray Anderson The meeting was led by Arpad Muranyi ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Opens: - Arpad unavailable for the 11/13 meeting. Since that also coincides with the Asian Summit, the group agreed to cancel the meeting on 11/13. -------------------------- Call for patent disclosure: - None ------------- Review of ARs: - Arpad to send BIRD 121.2 draft 10 to Mike L. to post on the ATM website: - Forgot after last meeting, was not done until this morning. - Mike L. not available today so it was not posted. - emailed to the group. - done - Fangyi to send "Redriver" BIRD draft and PowerPoint to Mike L. to post on the ATM website: - done - Walter and Ambrish to clear up the language of BIRD 150 offline. - done ------------- New Discussion: BIRD 121.2 draft 10 (Parameters for Data Management): - Arpad: Are people ready to comment, or should we postpone the discussion? - Bob: I have some minor points. - Usage Rules for Supporting_Files: - States, "... a file definition is redundant ...", but it is legal. - Arpad: (changing document) - new text, "...is legal, but redundant..." - Bob: Definition for Supporting_Files: - Remove "According to the IBIS specification". - Arpad: done. - Bob: Same sentence: - Make "executable" plural, and change "its" to "their". - Radek: actually, change "their" to "the". - Bob: agreed. - Arpad: done. - John: Same sentence: - Change "defined" to "declared". - Arpad: done. - Bob: Usage Rules for Supporting_Files: - Remove "for some reason". - Arpad: done. - Bob: Example for DLL_Path: - The (Value "NA") concerns me because NA has meaning elsewhere. - Radek: Replace it with (Value "placeholder"). - Ambrish and Bob: agreed. - Arpad: done. - Arpad: I will save this as draft 11 and send it to Mike L. to post to the ATM website. Presentation on "Redriver" BIRD draft. (posted to ATM site, see ARs above) - Mahbubul: Introduction to PowerPoint presentation - Mahbubul, Ron, Hassan, Fangyi are collaborators. - Fangyi: presenting. - Redriver background slides - Equalizer, no CDR. - Nonlinear and Noisy, would break LTI assumption for end-to-end channel. - Need to extend existing AMI capabilities. - Bob: Are Tx and Rx blocks contained in separate IBIS models. - Fangyi: yes. - Fangyi: next page (page 3) of presentation - Important point is that Tx Model is an analog output circuit, not a typical D to A scheme. - Arpad: If the Rx model generates a clock ticks array it is to be ignored? - Fangyi: yes. - Arpad: Repeaters with a CDR exist in practice, how are they handled? - Fangyi: We define that as a "Retimer" not a "Redriver". - Ambrish: The example shows a "Terminator" model for the Rx? Illegal? - Fangyi: Yes, that should be "Input". - We have a BIRD draft to make "Terminator" legal. - Dan and Bob: Are these flagged as "Redrivers" in the .ibs file? - Fangyi: No. - Fangyi: next page - Simulation Flow Diagram. - Ambrish: Are there any differences between these and a regular AMI file. - Fangyi: Only difference is that Tx output analog model is not a D to A. - Fangyi: The EDA tool provides a method for importing a "Redriver". - The user imports the [Model]s into the "Redriver" device. - Kumar: The repeater pin premise (BIRD 131) is more general. - Ambrish: The user figuring out what a "Redriver" model is seems redundant. - Walter: We have "Redriver" and BIRD 131's "Repeater". - What's the difference between these proposals? - Fangyi: The simulation flow is more detailed. - Walter: Agreed, Agilent's flow is more specific. - Walter: Does this generalize to multiple repeater packages? - Ambrish: Agree with Walter. - Modify the simulation flow of BIRD 131 based on this presentation. - Walter: This "Redriver" is constrained to analog only Tx. - There are repeater devices out there that use digital clocks. - The same model maker is the doing Tx and Rx sides. - Why not generalize this so model maker can do either type (of Tx). - Fangyi: The signal that drives the Tx is different in a "Retimer". - Walter: Redriver has a true analog waveform. - If Rx has a clock, the only difference is the waveform going to Tx goes from + or - 0.5V. - Redriver - Rx returns analog. - Retimer - Rx returns "digital." Jitter parameters would apply. - Fangyi: With Retimer you need not use the Rx output waveform at all. - Kumar: Repeater pin is more general. - It just says left side, right side. - Walter: I think we have something of a consensus on a good combination: - Simulation flow of this proposal should be combined with BIRD 131. - Ambrish: It's not necessary for that much detail in the flows. - Walter: disagree - Useful to show output of Rx GetWave is input to Tx GetWave. - Walter: I think the flows should use the terminology from IBIS 5.1. - See page 162 in IBIS 5.1. - Fangyi: Which terminology is not consistent with 5.1? - Walter: (asks Fangyi to share the BIRD itself) - hAC1, for example, that terminology did not make it into 5.1. - I think the wording is fine, but we need to be consistent. - I like this terminology, but we should be consistent. - Arpad: He's distinguishing between two outputs with hAC1 and hAC2. - Isn't the hAC already consistent with 5.1? - Walter: I don't think it made it into 5.1. - I think we agree that we need consistent terminology. - Fangyi: Agreed. - Arpad: Can we make it an AR to combine BIRD 131 and this proposal? - Ambrish: Please include me in the discussions. - Fangyi: Maxim and Agilent will discuss this first. - They will then contact Walter and Ambrish. - Arpad: Okay then, we're about out of time. Any last comments? - Arpad: Next week's meeting is canceled. New ARs: AR: Arpad to send the new draft 11 of BIRD 121.2 to Mike L. to post to the ATM website. AR: Fangyi, Mahbubul, et. al., to discuss merging their "Redriver" proposal with BIRD 131. AR: Fangyi, Mahbubul, et. al., contact Walter and Ambrish for further BIRD 131 discussions. ------------- Next meeting: 20 Nov 2012 12:00pm PT Next agenda: 1) Task list item discussions ------------- IBIS Interconnect SPICE Wish List: 1) Simulator directives